In Abu Ghraib, women were raped by the Americans and tortured much more than the men

BEAZ-435179 PROOF >>>>>http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0528/p01s02-woiq.html

another that you probably would not believe.

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/terry-jones-and-rush-limbaugh-cape-central-high-school-students-2662906.html

This is more anti-American bull@!$%#tery...yawn...

Is it BS because it depicts a view different than what you've already made up in your mind? It's no more BS than the remaining pictures from the AG scandal not being released.

The worst anti-American are the rapiest brutes of AbouGhraib in those photos

why the re-post. I've already told you why your link is BS in post 5.4. But whatever keep spreading lies if you want.

Families killed some of these women – because of the shame."

Why the families had to killed those women?

She was a soldier , a nurse

And was she there during the scandal?

he has authoried

*authored

Using bad or unvarifiable sources only distracts and robs credibility from stories of merit.

I know there are atrocities comitted all over the world that need to be brought to light, many of them carried out by members of the US military, but lets try to pick one one of the many that are legit.

. If this was the case, then who is going to stop the troops from such actions ???

As of now, there is no good reason to believe this was the case.

I understand what your telling me, and I agree that stories must be legit and backed by evidence, hardcore evidence. The events of Abugraib almost never made it to public eye and when it did, it was very limited access.. Is there chances of cover ups ?? always.

This source is @!$%#. There I said it. You lose credibility on every legit post by posting this garbage.

In regards to evidence, Why was Iraq attacked again ??? What evidence was used to make such a devastating decision ?

The evidence for Iraq was @!$%#. The same grade of @!$%# you seeded here. Delete this if you want to censor unfairly but you already read it and that's all that matters to me.

Honestly, iit is more of the same @!$%# man. No names, no sources. No list of the actual women detained at the prison.

Do you want me to do the leg work? I am sure we can find the truth. You've got to be responsible here. Don't you care about your credibility?

Half of that article is about how just the rumor can get you killed. That mentality is half of this "supposed" problem.

Ok guys. Here are some facts.

http://www.esterrepublic.com/Archives/djamail6.html

Professor Huda Shaker al-Nuaimi is a political scientist at Baghdad University who works as a researcher for the International Human Rights Group Amnesty International. Luke Harding for The Guardian reported that she found that a woman named “Noor” who was in Abu Ghraib is now probably dead. Why? Because as Nuaimi said, “We believe she was raped and that she was pregnant by a U.S. guard. After her release from Abu Ghraib, I went to her house. The neighbors said her family had moved away. I believe she has been killed.”

As far as response to these claims from the Coalition Provisional Authority, Brigadier-General Mark Kimmitt said the prisons department is unaware of any such reports at Abu Ghraib, and that the reports have not yet been confirmed.

The U.S. military reports that five women remain in solitary confinement inside Abu Ghraib in the feared cellblock 1A. However, reports continue to emerge from the prison that point toward abuse and even rape of Iraqi female detainees.

According to the New Yorker magazine, the Pentagon has yet to release photos and videos showing American soldiers “having sex with a female Iraqi prisoner.” This has been confirmed by a secret report by General Antonio Taguba of the scandal that states “a male MP guard” was shown “having sex with a female detainee.”

So. We know someone is probably dead and we know there are pictures of sex. THIS IS BAD. This probably means worse probably happened. I was just saying you have to use credible info as not to be misled or mislead others.

I hope that the truth comes out and that justice is served, though I know it is unlikely.

I encourage you to re-seed using the link above. The author is much more credible and the article provides many facts. Peace man.

I hope that the truth comes out and that justice is served, though I know it is unlikely

Why, sounds like you have already made up your mind and decided that the soldiers are guilty.

Seriously? You should go back and read my posts on this seed man. I am more objective than anyone in the room. I have demanded and sought out the available facts. I have argued against a rush to judgment.

I haven't labeled anyone as guilty. If you read the link I posted though, it sounds like there are some real victims here. I only hope they get justice. Whether that justice is served against a soldier or the family who murdered them when they weren't raped I couldn't begin to presume about.

Thanks. I know I was aggressive yesterday. I hope you understnad that my intentions are good.

I may have misread. but it seems that by saying that "I hope that the truth comes out and that justice is served" you are implying that Soldiers at Abu Ghraib were guilty and need to be brought to justice. If it was more meant as "If the truth comes out and the American Soldiers are guilty I hope justice is served" than I apologize. If you were implying they were guilty and it will be proven if the photos came out I stand by my first comment.

I meant it exactly as I said it. What the truth is we do not know. Many scenarios are possible in this case but, clearly, something went wrong.

We do know that...

Women may have been raped.

Women may have engaged in consensual sex.

Women may have been murdered by their families because the family believed she engaged in sex.

Women may have been murdered by their families because the family believed she was raped.

Women may have been murdered by their families because they were pregnant by American soldiers.

It is possible that many of the above listed scenarios are true. In any event, I see the possibility for justice to be carried out against two potential characters in each scenario. Any soldiers who have violated these women and family members who are responsible for any senseless murders.

I hope you understand that I realize that a woman could have been murdered by her family just because they believed it, even if it never happened. My hope then is the same. That the truth comes out. A soldier is cleared and her family is punished.

Do you understand why it isn't specific to the soldiers now? I want justice for the girls and the soldiers and the families. There are many potential victims here.

Sorry I take this a little personal. I have spent a good bit of time at Abu and the majority of the Soldiers are nothing but professional. This type of story is consistent with PsyOps carried out by the anti-American movement over there. I remember being yelled at by an Iraqi because he read about Our technologies in the paper that told him we were checking out there women using our x-ray glasses ( AKA our dust goggles). They were also told that we were taken prisons up in our helicopters and pushing them out ( also never happened). The point is there is such a gap in truth and what is reported for the sake of creating an uprising you have to be very cautious. You must also ask yourself why would a woman say such atrocities took place if they never did, then answer the question by asking another what did she do to get in there in the first place.

I understand what you are saying. I really do. I know there is a psychological war going on and that the tactics you describe have been used. I have two brothers actively serving today and know more than you probably realize about conditions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

But go read the article I linked. US military officials have acknowledged that there are pictures of female prisoners engaged in sex acts. We don't know if it was rape. We don't know if it was consensual (though I doubt there would be photos of that). Clearly the entire situation needs to be investigated.

Basically, right now we don't know much. Which is exactly why I cautioned against a rush to judgment. However, I will say that your rush to judge the character of these women is equally as bad as your perceived rush by others to judge the soldiers.

I will say that your rush to judge the character of these women is equally as bad as your perceived rush by others to judge the soldiers.

Understand my position the Soldiers I worked with, trained with, shared a table at the Dfac with were not in Abu because they tried to, did or help plotted an attack. Can they same be said for the woman in there. All things being even would you side with Charles Manson or the guards over him. I know it a little stretch for a comparison but you get the idea of my stance. Also to your point yes I am a little bias, I know the soldiers that were in Abu can't say the same for the criminals that were kept there.

You should be ashamed of yourself. How dare you?

Understand my position the Soldiers I worked with, trained with, shared a table at the Dfac with were not in Abu because they tried to, did or help plotted an attack.

Often, the friends and family members of those who commit vicious crimes say after they fact, "You know, I looked at him everyday, had lunch with him three times a week, shared an office with him and I would've never believed he could do this." What you think doesn't mean jack. Only the evidence does and until we have it all, none of us are in a position to judge.

There have been plenty of verifiable crimes committed in Iraq and Afghanistan by American soldiers. We also KNOW that men at Abu were tortured by American soldiers. Or have you forgotten? Your above statement is senseless sir. It is an obvious fact that something bad happened here. US military officials acknowledge it.

Can they same be said for the woman in there.

I don't know and neither do you. We don't know anything about the character of the women who were imprisoned there. We do know that enough of them were released for some to have been killed by their families. If they were so despicable or dangerous, why were they released?

All things being even would you side with Charles Manson or the guards over him.

Comparing these women to a serial killer is senseless and sick. I'm sure that if women were abused there, the soldiers who carried out the abuse viewed them the same way you do.

If any soldiers assaulted these women, they should be punished. If these girls' families harmed any of the girls, regardless of whether or not she was raped, they should be punished. If a girl lied, the truth should come out and the soldier should be cleared.

Your bigotry disgusts me! Why can't we just ask for even-handed justice and the truth? Why do you insist on demonizing these women and looking the other way when it comes to the soldiers?

Comparing these women to a serial killer is senseless and sick

Female suicide bombers conducted more than twice as many attacks in Iraq in the first six months of 2008 than in all of 2007". Already this year at least 20 female martyrs have been linked to attacks including the June bombing of a government building in Baquba that killed 16 and injured 40 others.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/25/female-teen-suicide-bombe_n_109285.html

Al Qaeda in Iraq has pulled off two mass-casualty terror bombings in markets in Baghdad. The attacks, which were carried out by mentally impaired women, claimed the lives of at least 73 Iraqi civilians and wounded more than 167

Read more: http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2008/02/al_qaeda_in_iraq_use.php#ixzz0zW4kMI1U

In a separate prison interview with The Associated Press, with interrogators nearby, the woman said she was part of a plot in which young women were raped and then sent to her for matronly advice. She said she would try to persuade the victims to become suicide bombers as their only escape from the shame and to reclaim their honor…

[T]he suspect, 50-year-old Samira Ahmed Jassim — who said her code name was "The Mother of Believers" — has given unusual firsthand descriptions of the possible workings behind last year’s spike in attacks by women bombers.

The Iraqi military spokesman, Maj. Gen. Qassim al-Moussawi, said the suspect had recruited more than 80 women willing to carry out attacks and admitted masterminding 28 bombings in different areas.

Female suicide bombers attempted or successfully carried out 32 attacks last year, compared with eight in 2007, according to U.S. military figures. Most recently, a woman detonated an explosive under her robes that killed at least 36 people during a Shiite religious gathering last month…

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/iraqi-women-raped-for-suicide-missions

Your right these women killing ( 16, 73, 32) were killed in their attack but the ones we captured didn't make it that far. And what right do I have to compare a woman that (admittedly) set out to have her fellow country women raped so she convince them to be suicide bombers. that is the type of people that were in Abu. Yes if any soldiers raped ( or even had consensual sex) a prisoner they should be severely punished. What you are failing to see in my point is you keep saying when the truth comes out what I am saying is that it is already out and this is more propaganda by the organizations that want to harm America. What proof do you need for you to say there was no rape, the release of photos, which the POTUS has said show no evidence of females being raped.

Or have you forgotten? Your above statement is senseless sir. It is an obvious fact that something back happened here

Have you forgotten that the personel involved were all punished

Colonel Thomas Pappas: relieved of his command, He was fined $8000 under the provisions of Article 15 of the UCMJ, received a General Officer Memorandum of Reprimand (GOMOR) which effectively ended his military career.

Specialist Charles Graner:On January 15, 2005, he was sentenced to ten years in federal prison.

Staff Sergeant Ivan Frederick: He was sentenced to eight years in prison, forfeiture of pay, a dishonorable discharge and a reduction in rank to private

Sergeant Javal Davis: He was sentenced to six months in prison, a reduction in rank to private, and a bad conduct discharge.

^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse}

^{so yes there was misconduct but it was taken care of also. Can you show me any Soldier misconduct that hasn't}

Your right these women killing ( 16, 73, 32) were killed in their attack but the ones we captured didn't make it that far.

The women referenced in this story weren't suicide bombers. Had they been, they wouldn't have been released and then murdered by their families. Nice try.

that is the type of people that were in Abu.

So, no innocent women were in Abu? Were there any innocent people at all? We know there were because many were freed. Go ahead though, keep panting everyone with your big paintbrush of bigotry.

What proof do you need for you to say there was no rape, the release of photos, which the POTUS has said show no evidence of females being raped.

Just because there aren't pictures of a rape doesn't mean nobody was raped. I haven't heard of any convictions for rape. I want a full investigation. I want these women interviewed.

Colonel Thomas Pappas: relieved of his command, He was fined $8000 under the provisions of Article 15 of the UCMJ, received a General Officer Memorandum of Reprimand (GOMOR) which effectively ended his military career.

Specialist Charles Graner:On January 15, 2005, he was sentenced to ten years in federal prison.

Staff Sergeant Ivan Frederick: He was sentenced to eight years in prison, forfeiture of pay, a dishonorable discharge and a reduction in rank to private

Sergeant Javal Davis: He was sentenced to six months in prison, a reduction in rank to private, and a bad conduct discharge.

Specialist Jeremy Sivits was sentenced on May 19, 2004 by a special court-martial to the maximum one-year sentence, in addition to being discharged for bad conduct and demoted, upon his plea of guilty.^[58]

Specialist Armin Cruz was sentenced on September 11, 2004 to eight months confinement, reduction in rank to private and a bad conduct discharge in exchange for his testimony against other soldiers.^[59]

Specialist Sabrina Harman was sentenced on May 17, 2005 to six months in prison and a bad conduct discharge after being convicted on six of the seven counts. She had faced a maximum sentence of five years.^[60]

Specialist Megan Ambuhl was convicted on October 30, 2004, of dereliction of duty and sentenced to reduction in rank to private and loss of a half-month’s pay.^[61]

Private First Class Lynndie England was convicted on September 26, 2005, of one count of conspiracy, four counts of maltreating detainees and one count of committing an indecent act. She was acquitted on a second conspiracy count. England had faced a maximum sentence of ten years. She was sentenced on September 27, 2005, to three years confinement, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, reduction to Private (E-1) and received a dishonorable discharge.^[57]

Sergeant Santos Cardona was convicted of dereliction of duty and aggravated assault, the equivalent of a felony in the US civilian justice system. He served 90 days of hard labor at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. He was then transferred to a new unit and was promoted to sergeant. He was assigned to the 23rd MP Company of the US military police, which was based in Kuwait as of November 2006. There he was selected to train Iraqi police.^[62]

Corporal Joshua Lee Betts, of the 321st Military Intelligence Battalion, Detachment 9, pled innocent on October 20, 2004 to conspiracy, dereliction of duty, maltreatment of detainees, assault, and numerous violations of Geneva Convention, and human rights violation. Cpl. Joshua Lee Betts was later cleared of all charges.^[63]

Specialist Roman Krolpled guilty on February 1, 2005 to conspiracy and maltreatment of detainees at Abu Ghraib. He was sentenced to ten months confinement, reduction in rank to private, and a bad conduct discharge.^[64]

Specialist Israel Rivera, who was present during abuse on October 25, was under investigation but was never charged and testified against other soldiers.

Sergeant Michael Smith was found guilty on March 21, 2006 of two counts of prisoner maltreatment, one count of simple assault, one count of conspiracy to maltreat, one count of dereliction of duty and a final charge of an indecent act, and sentenced to 179 days in prison, a fine of $2,250, a demotion to private, and a bad conduct discharge.

^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse}

Are these the guys you said you ate with? That would never carry out these types of atrocities? They sound like real stand-up guys! Sounds to me like, "we" can be just as down right evil as "they" can.

Actually this source was the primary topic of this seed. Did you read the rest of my comments? I found a good source for the info and your post is really pointless at this point.

BTW... I wasn't speaking to the credibility of the site but the article itself. It failed to list any facts and I provided an article that did list the facts in one of my comments. Get off my back.

Islamic scholars, any help here? People are reading one or two of my posts and assuming about who I am...incorrectly.

The poinless is to defend any rape suspect on this planet , the pointless is to cast doubts over one of the worst Iraqi war atrocities , that's the rape of prisoner women who are belonging to strict cultural traditions ' You cast doubt in many msgs over the article and over the rape act itself as you say : We don't know if it was rape and you say about those old fashioned muslem girls ''they may engaged in consensual sex''

Does this brutal and violent mass-rape in photos look like consensual sex?

.

You need to go read and comprehend all of the above comments I've made. I suggested nothing but that justice be sought for all partes involved, namely these women. I have been accused of supporting terrorists and now of denying rape....all in one seed. WTF?

lets start with the obvious. the photos in the link are not us soldiers. the uniform was wrong we were issued the desert tan.i was there for the beginning of Afghanistan and the invasion of Iraq there was no woodland green except for the ocasional flight suite in Afghan and that was corrected by the invasion. You can see the actual uniform in the bottom picture that does not show any rape taking place. The link also make the giant leap from making the prisoner better for interrogation to rape. there are plenty of techniques used to get a prisoner ready for interrogation besides rape.

Thank you. My boyfreind told me those were the wrong uniforms but I didn't want to post it unless I was certain.

No problem. It even stats at the top that the pictures are on a porn website. I'm not judging ( what ever floats your boat) but just seeing that brings doubt to the source. also i can tell you that almost no Soldiers keep photos of the porn they keep it on hard drives. also where would anyone get the photos printed not like there is a Kinko's around the sand dune ( i'm referring to the part about trading like baseball cards gives me the impression of physical pictures not digits). then that leads back to who would developed the pictures and not immediately take them to the press. lastly everyone knows you go through customs on the way home so destroyed when the went through their luggage also cast doubt.

Kind of funny that you push me one way above and here I am being labled in the opposite direction now. I appreciate you swooping in to represent facts and not an opinion or grudge.

no life is to short to hold a grudge plus if everyone had the same opinion and view what would be the point of newsvine. plus when you debate with someone their mind is pretty much made up you are not trying to change it just other people reading our post that's the nature of debate . have a good night see you tomorrow. Also does your BF also serve just curious because the uniform thing.

No he doesn't serve actually. He happened to ask what I was posting about and of course saw the pics I was looking at. He immediately said that camo didn't look like anything he'd seen since '04 maybe. He isn't sure it was ever legit but says it certainly isn't from years of late.

Take care. Thanks for your service.

I enlisted in 2001. two months after basic and AIT I found myself at Fort Campbell drawing my desert uniforms for deployment to Afghan. by time Igot back in 2003 everyone had there desert issue. Before someone tries to say they were there old uniforms i can discredit that also. If you look at the sleeves and the chest there are no stitch marks. if patches and name tapes were removed from their old uniform there would always be stitch marks.

Good to know. Thanks for the info. Peace.

Wow, this is a reliable link. This is the only news organization I've seen that discredits itself on the homepage beside the Onion.

The Ester Republic is an irreverent periodical published monthly in the Ester Commonwealth and written by members of the local populace and the odd guest columnist. In no way should this publication be mistaken for a regular newspaper.

LMAO, that's great.

Yes, most of our Islamic politicians have the first priority to get as much money by any means then peerhapes after think about their duties.

The people of Pakistan now voting for Imran khan as coming prime minister and Dr. Abdul Qadir khan as a coming president, any opinion?

so we are suffering like this and our sisters and mothers are tortured by the others.

Do you really believe that innocent muslem women are paying for the sins of corrupt rulers and greedy tycoons in muslem world? this is wrong because Qura'an clears that no one pays for the sin of another

Those women and other millions of innocents are suffering because of the greed and hegamony of Capitalism and Military Industrial Complex